Psychedelics Today: PTSF 35 (with Brian Muraresku) Griffithsfund.org Thank you all for joining us, and I hope to see many of you later this month for our next event. The most colorful theory of psychedelics in religion portrays the original Santa Claus as a shaman. Interesting. Samuel Zuschlag - Durham University - Charlotte, North - LinkedIn Brian is the author of a remarkable new book that has garnered a lot of attention and has sold a great many copies. Just from reading Dioscorides and reading all the different texts, the past 12 years have absolutely transformed the way I think about wine. The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name What's the wine? First, I will provide definitions for the terms "pagan", "Christian", Nage ?] We have some inscriptions. I would love to see these licensed, regulated, retreat centers be done in a way that is medically sound and scientifically rigorous. But I want to ask you to reflect on the broader narrative that you're painting, because I've heard you speak in two ways about the significance of this work. CHARLES STANG: Thank you, Brian. It's this 22-acre site of free-standing limestone, some rising 20 feet in the air, some weighing 50 tons. Show Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and Conservation podcast, Ep Plants of the Gods: S4E2. And that is that there was a pervasive religion, ancient religion, that involved psychedelic sacraments, and that that pervasive religious culture filtered into the Greek mysteries and eventually into early Christianity. So we're going down parallel paths here, and I feel we're caught between FDA-approved therapeutics and RFRA-protected sacraments, RFRA, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, or what becomes of these kinds of substances in any kind of legal format-- which they're not legal at the moment, some would argue. If you die before you die, you won't die when you die. So after the whole first half of the book-- well, wait a minute, Dr. Stang. But the next event in this series will happen sooner than that. And yet I talked to an atheist who has one experience with psilocybin and is immediately bathed in God's love. would certainly appreciate. Dogs, indicative of the Greek goddess Hecate, who, amongst other things was known as the [GREEK], the dog eater. So what have you learned about the Eleusinian mysteries in particular since Ruck took this up, and what has convinced you that Ruck's hypothesis holds water? Now, Brian managed to write this book while holding down a full time practice in international law based in Washington DC. Let me start with the view-- the version of it that I think is less persuasive. But what we do know is that their sacrament was wine and we know a bit more about the wine of antiquity, ancient Greek wine, than we can piece together from these nocturnal celebrations. And so for me, this was a hunt through the catacombs and archives and libraries, doing my sweet-talking, and trying to figure out what was behind some of those locked doors. So there's a whole slew of sites I want to test there. . Is this only Marcus? Things like fasting and sleep deprivation and tattooing and scarification and, et cetera, et cetera. But I think there's a decent scientific foothold to begin that work. You're not confident that the pope is suddenly going to issue an encyclical. Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of " tikkun olam "repairing and improving And maybe therein we do since the intimation of immortality. Again, it's proof of concept for going back to Eleusis and going back to other sites around the Mediterranean and continuing to test, whether for ergotized beer or other things. And Ruck, and you following Ruck, make much of this, suggesting maybe the Gnostics are pharmacologists of some kind. #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More by The Tim Ferriss Show These-- that-- Christians are spread out throughout the eastern Mediterranean, and there are many, many pockets of people practicing what we might call, let's just call it Christian mysticism of some kind. He comes to this research with a full suite of scholarly skills, including a deep knowledge of Greek and Latin as well as facility in a number of European languages, which became crucial for uncovering some rather obscure research in Catalan, and also for sweet-talking the gatekeepers of archives and archaeological sites. Then what was the Gospel of John, how did it interpret the Eucharist and market it, and so on. CHARLES STANG: All right. That to live on forever and ever, to live an everlasting life is not immortality. But I think the broader question of what's the reception to this among explicitly religious folk and religious leaders? Which turns out, it may be they were. Rather, Christian beliefs were gradually incorporated into the pagan customs that already existed there. So if you were a mystic and you were into Demeter and Persephone and Dionysus and you were into these strange Greek mystery cults, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better place to spend your time than [SPEAKING GREEK], southern Italy, which in some cases was more Greek than Greek. President and CEO, First Southeast Financial Corp and First Federal Savings and Loan Director, Carolina First Bank and The South Financial Group There is evidence that has been either overlooked or perhaps intentionally suppressed. "The Tim Ferriss Show" 646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin So those are all possibly different questions to ask and answer. There's a good number of questions that are very curious why you are insisting on remaining a psychedelic virgin. That event is already up on our website and open for registration. And I, for one, look forward to a time when I can see him in person for a beer, ergotized beer or not, if he ever leaves Uruguay. CHARLES STANG: OK. And that's a question equally for ancient historians and for contemporary seekers and/or good Catholics. Two Reviews of The Immortality Key - Graham Hancock I think it's important you have made a distinction between what was Jesus doing at the Last Supper, as if we could ever find out. Now is there any evidence for psychedelic use in ancient Egypt, and if not, do you have any theory as to why that's silent? I include that line for a reason. To become truly immortal, Campbell talks about entering into a sense of eternity, which is the infinite present here and now. So can you reflect for us where you really are and how you chose to write this book? So I have my concerns about what's about to happen in Oregon and the regulation of psilocybin for therapeutic purposes. Wise not least because it is summer there, as he reminds me every time we have a Zoom meeting, which has been quite often in these past several months. Do you think that by calling the Eucharist a placebo that you're likely to persuade them? And what, if any, was the relationship between those ancient Greeks and the real religion of the earliest Christians, who might call the paleo-Christians. And the truth is that this is a project that goes well beyond ancient history, because Brian is convinced that what he has uncovered has profound implications for the future of religion, and specifically, the future of his own religion, Roman Catholicism. Copyright 2023 President and Fellows of Harvard College. CHARLES STANG: We've really read Jesus through the lens of his Greek inheritors. Mona Sobhani, PhD (@monasobhaniphd) / Twitter 25:15 Dionysus and the "pagan continuity hypothesis" 30:54 Gnosticism and Early Christianity . They were mixed or fortified. BRIAN MURARESKU: Now we're cooking with grease, Dr. Stang. I mean, I wish it were easier. And there were moments when the sunlight would just break through. First I'll give the floor to Brian to walk us into this remarkable book of his and the years of hard work that went into it, what drove him to do this. Then I'll ask a series of questions that follow the course of his book, focusing on the different ancient religious traditions, the evidence for their psychedelic sacraments, and most importantly, whether and how the assembled evidence yields a coherent picture of the past. The Tim Ferriss Show - #535: General Stanley McChrystal Mast 55 This is very likely as it seems that the process had already started in the 4th century. There he is. Examine the pros and cons of the continuity theory of aging, specifically in terms of how it neglects to consider social institutions or chronically ill adults. And for some reason, I mean, I'd read that two or three times as an undergrad and just glossed over that line. The Tim Ferriss Show | iHeart Again, how did Christianity take hold in a world with such a rich mystical tradition? But please do know that we will forward all these questions to Brian so he will know the sorts of questions his work prompts. So throughout the book, you make the point that ancient beer and wine are not like our beer and wine. It draws attention to this material. It seems entirely believable to me that we have a potion maker active near Pompeii. Others would argue that they are perfectly legal sacraments, at least in the Native American church with the use of peyote, or in the UDV or Santo Daime, I mean, ayahuasca does work in some syncretic Christian form, right? Revolutionary Left Radio: Early Christianity: Psychedelics, Ancient Are they rolling their eyes, or are you getting sort of secretive knowing nods of agreement? Well, wonderful. 18.3C: Continuity Theory. The Immortality Key - David Bookstaber And I think we get hung up on the jargon. So Brian, welcome. I wonder if you're familiar with Wouter Hanegraaff at the University of Amsterdam. What was the wine in the early Eucharist? I've no doubt that Brian has unearthed and collected a remarkable body of evidence, but evidence of what, exactly? And I feel like I accomplished that in the afterword to my book. CHARLES STANG: OK. Now let's move into the Greek mystery. And at the same time, when I see a thirst, especially in young people, for real experience, and I see so many Catholics who do not believe in transubstantiation, obviously, what comes to my mind is how, if at all, can psychedelics enhance faith or reinvent Christianity. Love potions, love charms, they're very common in the ancient. And in the ancient world, wine was routinely referred to as a [SPEAKING GREEK], which is the Greek word for drug. The only reason I went to college was to study classics. I'm currently reading The Immortality Key by Brian Muraresku and find this 2nd/3rd/4th century AD time period very interesting, particularly with regards to the adoptions of pagan rituals and practices by early Christianity. Now, it's just an early indication and there's more testing to be done. And it was their claim that when the hymn to Demeter, one of these ancient records that records, in some form, the proto-recipe for this kykeon potion, which I call like a primitive beer, in the hymn to Demeter, they talk about ingredients like barley, water, and mint. I can't imagine that there were no Christians that availed themselves of this biotechnology, and I can't imagine-- it's entirely plausible to me that they would mix this biotechnology with the Eucharist. Not in every single case, obviously. According to Muraresku, this work, BOOK REVIEW which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? 13,000 years old. "@BrianMuraresku with @DocMarkPlotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More" Please enjoy! That's our next event, and will be at least two more events to follow. But in Pompeii, for example, there's the villa of the mysteries, one of these really breathtaking finds that also survived the ravage of Mount Vesuvius. There were formula. Maybe there's a spark of the divine within. Now I want to get to the questions, but one last question before we move to the discussion portion. In the Classics world, there's a pagan continuity hypothesis with the very origin of Christianity, and many overt references to Greek plays in the Gospel of John. There aren't any churches or basilicas, right, in the first three centuries, in this era we're calling paleo-Christianity. But I don't understand how that provides any significant link to paleo-Christian practice. They are guaranteed an afterlife. No one lived there. Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and - Podchaser So when you take a step back, as you well know, there was a Hellenic presence all over the ancient Mediterranean. They were relevant to me in going down this rabbit hole. The book was published by Saint Martin's Press in September 2020 and has generated a whirlwind of attention. and he said, Brian, don't you dare. If your history is even remotely correct, that would have ushered in a very different church, if Valentinus's own student Marcus and the Marcosians were involved in psychedelic rituals, then that was an early road not taken, let's say. Newsweek calls him 'the world's best human guinea pig,' and The New York Times calls him 'a cross between Jack Welch and a Buddhist monk.' In this show, he deconstructs world-class performers from eclectic areas (investing, chess, pro sports, etc . Part 1 Brian C. Muraresku: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis and the Hallucinogenic Origins of Religion - Feb 22, 2023 Now, I think you answered that last part. Perhaps more generally, you could just talk about other traditions around the Mediterranean, North African, or, let's even say Judaism. The phrasing used in the book and by others is "the pagan continuity hypothesis". I really tried. These two accuse one Gnostic teacher named Marcus-- who is himself a student of the famous theologian Valentinus-- they accuse him of dabbling in pharmacological devilry. Not because they just found that altar. Let's move to early Christian. In this hypothesis, both widely accepted and widely criticized,11 'American' was synonymous with 'North American'. Yeah. So if we can test Eucharistic vessels, I wouldn't be surprised at all that we find one. All right, so now, let's follow up with Dionysus, but let's see here. And that's where oversight comes in handy. BRIAN MURARESKU: I would say I've definitely experienced the power of the Christ and the Holy Spirit. Video: Psychedelics: The Ancient Religion with No Name? But we do know that the initiates made this pilgrimage from Athens to Eleusis, drunk the potion, the kykeon, had this very visionary event-- they all talk about seeing something-- and after which they become immortal. So I don't write this to antagonize them or the church, the people who, again, ushered me into this discipline and into these questions. It's not the case in the second century. So perhaps there's even more evidence. That would require an entirely different kind of evidence. That's the promise in John's gospel, in John 6:54-55, that I quote in the book. Did the Early Church Use Psychedelics? - Substack The universality of frontiers, however, made the hypothesis readily extendable to other parts of the globe. It was it was barley, water, and something else. And for those of you who have found my line of questioning or just my general presence tedious, first of all, I fully appreciate that reaction. But maybe you could just say something about this community in Catalonia. And there are legitimate scholars out there who say, because John wanted to paint Jesus in the light of Dionysus, present him as the second coming of this pagan God. But things that sound intensely powerful. And it was the Jesuits who encouraged me to always, always ask questions and never take anything at face value. So to find dog sacrifice inside this Greek sanctuary alludes to this proto-witch, Hecate, the mother of Circe, who is mentioned in the same hymn to Demeter from the 8th, 7th century BC, as kind of the third of the goddesses to whom these mysteries were dedicated. And does it line up with the promise from John's gospel that anyone who drinks this becomes instantly immortal? Mark and Brian cover the Eleusinian Mysteries, the pagan continuity hypothesis, early Christianity, lessons from famed religious scholar Karen Armstrong, overlooked aspects of influential philosopher William James's career, ancient wine and ancient beer, experiencing the divine within us, the importance of "tikkun olam"repairing and improving This 'pagan continuity hypothesis' with a psychedelic twist is now backed up by biochemistry and agrochemistry and tons of historical research, exposing our forgotten history. This two-part discussion between Muraresku and Dr. Plotkin examines the role psychedelics have played in the development of Western civilization. But we do know that something was happening. Copyright 2023 The President and Fellows of Harvard College, The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name. I mean, shouldn't everybody, shouldn't every Christian be wondering what kind of wine was on that table, or the tables of the earliest Christians? So I'm not convinced that-- I think you're absolutely right that what this establishes is that Christians in southern Italy could have-- could have had access to the kinds of things that have been recovered from that drug farm, let's call it. Now, it doesn't have to be the Holy Grail that was there at the Last Supper, but when you think about the sacrament of wine that is at the center of the world's biggest religion of 2.5 billion people, the thing that Pope Francis says is essential for salvation, I mean, how can we orient our lives around something for which there is little to no physical data? So what I think we have here in this ergtotized beer drink from Catalonia, Spain, and in this weird witch's brew from 79 AD in Pompeii, I describe it, until I see evidence otherwise, as some of the very first heart scientific data for the actual existence of actual spiked wine in classical antiquity, which I think is a really big point. And now we have a working hypothesis and some data to suggest where we might be looking. Now, that is part of your kind of interest in democratizing mysticism, but it also, curiously, cuts out the very people who have been preserving this tradition for centuries, namely, on your own account, this sort of invisible or barely visible lineage of women. The (Mistaken) Conspiracy Theory: In the Late Middle Ages, religious elites created a new, and mistaken, intellectual framework out of Christian heresy and theology concerning demons. And I don't know if it's a genuine mystical experience or mystical mimetic or some kind of psychological breakthrough. These were Greek-- I've seen them referred to as Greek Vikings by Peter Kingsley, Vikings who came from Ionia. Now, Carl Ruck from Boston University, much closer to home, however, took that invitation and tried to pursue this hypothesis. He co-writes that with Gordon Wasson and Albert Hofmann, who famously-- there it is, the three authors. So that, actually, is the key to the immortality key. Ep #1 Show Notes | Brian Muraresku: Psychedelics, Civilization Now I understand and I appreciate the pharmaceutical industry's ability to distribute this as medicine for those who are looking for alternatives, alternative treatments for depression and anxiety and PTSD and addiction and end of life distress. They're mixing potions. Nazanin Boniadi And I'm trying to reconcile that. Brian has been very busy taking his new book on the road, of course, all online, and we're very grateful to him for taking the time to join us this evening. And I'm not even sure what that piece looks like or how big it is. Despite its popular appeal as a New York Times Bestseller, TIK fails to make a compelling case for its grand theory of the "pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist" due to. That they were what you call extreme beverages. CHARLES STANG: You know, Valentinus was almost elected bishop of Rome. I see a huge need and a demand for young religious clergy to begin taking a look at this stuff. It is my great pleasure to welcome Brian Muraresku to the Center. Books about pagan continuity hypothesis? : r/AskHistorians - reddit #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More Brought to you by GiveWell.org charity research and effective giving and 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter. And I think oversight also comes in handy within organized religion. Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Psychedelics, and More | Tim Ferriss Show #646 And he was actually going out and testing some of these ancient chalices. It was one of the early write-ups of the psilocybin studies coming out of Johns Hopkins. And so part of what it means to be a priest or a minister or a rabbi is to sit with the dying and the dead. Now, the great scholar of Greek religion, Walter Burkert, you quote him as musing, once-- and I'm going to quote him-- he says, "it may rather be asked, even without the prospect of a certain answer, whether the basis of the mysteries, they were prehistoric drug rituals, some festival imp of immortality which, through the expansion of consciousness, seemed to guarantee some psychedelic beyond." The question is, what will happen in the future. Even a little bit before Gobekli Tepe, there was another site unearthed relatively recently in Israel, at the Rakefet cave. What does that have to do with Christianity? In the first half, we'll cover topics ranging from the Eleusinian Mysteries, early Christianity, and the pagan continuity hypothesis to the work of philosopher and psychologist William James. To assess this hypothesis and, perhaps, to push it further, has required years of dogged and, at times, discouraging works in archives and archaeology. He decides to get people even more drunk. All that will be announced through our mailing list. CHARLES STANG: So that actually helps answer a question that's in the Q&A that was posed to me, which is why did I say I fully expect that we will find evidence for this? And not least because if I were to do it, I'd like to do so in a deeply sacred ritual. The mysteries of Dionysus, a bit weirder, a bit more off the grid. And very famous passages, by the way, that should be familiar to most New Testament readers. Now, here's-- let's tack away from hard, scientific, archaeobotanical evidence for a moment. So what evidence can you provide for that claim? And how can you reasonably expect the church to recognize a psychedelic Eucharist? And let's start with our earliest evidence from the Stone Age and the Bronze Age. The Immortality Key, The Secret History of the Religion With No Name. Let me just pull up my notes here. He has talked about the potential evidence for psychedelics in a Mithras liturgy. Maybe I have that wrong. Then there's what were the earliest Christians doing with the Eucharist. This notion in John 15:1, the notion of the true vine, for example, only occurs in John. He draws on the theory of "pagan continuity," which holds that early Christianity adopted . And so how far should this investigation go? And I think that that's the real question here. And so the big hunt for me was trying to find some of those psychedelic bits. Is taking all these disciplines, whether it's your discipline or archaeochemistry or hard core botany, biology, even psychopharmacology, putting it all together and taking a look at this mystery, this puzzle, using the lens of psychedelics as a lens, really, to investigate not just the past but the future and the mystery of human consciousness. But this clearly involved some kind of technical know-how and the ability to concoct these things that, in order to keep them safe and efficacious, would not have been very widespread, I don't think. Joe Campbell puts it best that what we're after is an experience of being alive. Here's the proof of concept. We have plays like the Bacchi from Euripides, where we can piece together some of this. 18.3C: Continuity Theory - Social Sci LibreTexts Theories of Origins about Witch Hunts - King's College We have an hour and a half together and I hope there will be time for Q&A and discussion. And by the way, I'm not here trying to protect Christianity from the evidence of psychedelic use. So again, that's February 22. He's been featured in Forbes, the Daily Beast, Big Think, and Vice. What was discovered, as far as I can tell, from your treatment of it, is essentially an ancient pharmacy in this house. They followed Platonic (and other Greeks) philosophy. I'm not. Jerry Brown wrote a good review that should be read to put the book in its proper place. This event is entitled, Psychedelics, The Ancient Religion With No Name? This time around, we have a very special edition featuring Dr. Mark Plotkin and Brian C . I mean, that's obviously the big question, and what that means for the future of medicine and religion and society at large. [texts-excerpt] penalty for cutting mangroves in floridaFREE EstimateFREE Estimate And how do we-- when the pharmaceutical industry and when these retreat centers begin to open and begin to proliferate, how do we make this sacred? As a matter of fact, I think it's much more promising and much more fertile for scholarship to suggest that some of the earliest Christians may have availed themselves of a psychedelic sacrament and may have interpreted the Last Supper as some kind of invitation to open psychedelia, that mystical supper as the orthodox call it, [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]. BRIAN MURARESKU: Dr. Stang, an erudite introduction as ever. Amongst all the mystery religions, Eleusis survives. But it just happens to show up at the right place at the right time, when the earliest Christians could have availed themselves of this kind of sacrament. Maybe for those facing the end of life. 36:57 Drug-spiked wine . The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name